- This topic has 14 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 6 months ago by
Carlosokelly.
Carlosokelly.- Topic
Scottcmb- Topics - 3
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Hi everyone,
I am hoping someone in our forum who has a 2010 36FWS Cameo would kindly be able to give me some very precise measurements of their rig.
These are the measurements I need:-
Exact measurement of the middle point between the two axles to the rear most point of the unit.
Exact measurement from the center of the king pin on the pin box to the center of the two axles.
Exact measurement of the center of the rear axle to the rear most point of the unit.
This information is very important to me, and any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Scotty :)
Scottcmb- Replies
- Scottcmb
- Topics - 3
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- Total - 12
Can anybody help please?
Cheers
Scotty
JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
Scotty,
I had MorRyde’s independent suspension (IS) with disc brake option added 1 year after purchase. I know my axles were moved to accommodate the “IS.”
even if this were not the case, “exact” is a very tough request, particularly the king pin. Those plastic end caps are not precise fits left to right nor unit to unit. What are you trying to establish or fix?
Bad rubber spring bushings or pins can cause axle mis-alignment. So can a worn/bad rubber in either/both center equalizer. The FWS is notorious for its much heavier driver’s side weight causing earlier wear and sagging a lot on this side. Also, early model MorRyde rubber springs in both the equalizer and IS were common failure point on the heavy side.
My oem September 2009 build (2010 model year) rubber equalizer was shot when I installed the IS in spring 2011 at about 15k miles. The heavier FWS side IS spring failed a year later and MorRyde replaced it. In replacement, I opted for the heavier 8k spring on both sides because my FWS side axles had weights that were right at 90% of the oem 7k rating. The disk brake conversion was a definite win. So was the IS for a rig I have used for 10+ years and 50k more miles without incident except replacing brake pads. If my rig was 10 years old today, I would still definitely do the disc brakes, but skimp on suspension by, instead of the costly IS, adding an overload spring and maybe a heavier main spring to the leaf pack, replacing all rubber in the process.
What are you trying to establish or fix?
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)Scottcmb- Topics - 3
- Replies - 9
- Total - 12
Scotty, I had MorRyde’s independent suspension (IS) with disc brake option added 1 year after purchase. I know my axles were moved to accommodate the “IS.” even if this were not the case, “exact” is a very tough request, particularly the king pin. Those plastic end caps are not precise fits left to right nor unit to unit. What are you trying to establish or fix? Bad rubber spring bushings or pins can cause axle mis-alignment. So can a worn/bad rubber in either/both center equalizer. The FWS is notorious for its much heavier driver’s side weight causing earlier wear and sagging a lot on this side. Also, early model MorRyde rubber springs in both the equalizer and IS were common failure point on the heavy side. My oem September 2009 build (2010 model year) rubber equalizer was shot when I installed the IS in spring 2011 at about 15k miles. The heavier FWS side IS spring failed a year later and MorRyde replaced it. In replacement, I opted for the heavier 8k spring on both sides because my FWS side axles had weights that were right at 90% of the oem 7k rating. The disk brake conversion was a definite win. So was the IS for a rig I have used for 10+ years and 50k more miles without incident except replacing brake pads. If my rig was 10 years old today, I would still definitely do the disc brakes, but skimp on suspension by, instead of the costly IS, adding an overload spring and maybe a heavier main spring to the leaf pack, replacing all rubber in the process. What are you trying to establish or fix?
Thanks for your reply John.
What i want to establish is if this unit is withing the permissable length measurements for being qualified to be legal on our roads here in New Zealand, as i would like to import and ship one over to here and upgrade from my current 32FWS. I have fully restored it to like new inside and out aswell as brake upgrade etc. Im getting offers all the time from some people who are very impressed with it. So it got me thinking of a chance to upgrade to a larger one, but i wont sell it till im sure i can get one road legal for here. Our rules are a maximum overall length of 12.5 meters from king pin to rear most point of the trailer, and a maximum of 4 meters from the centre point between the axles to the rear most point of the trailer. If the axles are to far forward then it is still posible to shift them back to meet legal requirements which would be nice to know before hand to determine extra cost in compliancing.
This is why i really appreciate the help so i dont end up with a perminent monument on my front yard.
Cheers
Scotty :)
JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
Scotty,
10 years ago I corresponded on this forum with a fella from Australia that did the same thing with 36FWS. Everyplace has different requirements. He had to install a door on the drivers’ side in the back, just behind the FWS, removing one window and rear storage access on that side. Also had to remove the propane igniters and replace with pilot light. I do know that he had to move the axles to the far rear, almost like a semi-truck trailer here, but that was Australia. He did great work and it turned out looking oem. But I digress….
I enclose a photo of the oem FABEX #770 pinbox specifications. These show 5 inches (127 mm) between furthest portion of front cap and the centerline of pin. MANY oem selling dealers replaced these with MorRyde rubberized pin boxes or other such manufacturers to make towing less jarring. They really work, but most, like mine, are longer than the above spec of 5 inches. That MorRyde pin box allowed me to open my pickup truck tailgate when the 5er was on the truck hitch. This was not possible with the oem hitch. I will also tell you that in the heavier cameos etc that extra pinbox length added more stress to the front pinbox framing introducing popped trim screws and more if not reinforced with extra gussets. Carriage strengthened these frame areas a bit in 2012 and even more under the Lifestyle transition. I tell you for 2 reasons – alert about need to strengthen pinbox framing with additional and larger gussets even with oem pinbox if you expect rough roads. AND also tell you this because that extra few inches may make the total trailer length with a MorRyde/other pinbox too long, but finding an oem pinbox might get you under the limit.
I will crawl under mine in the coming weeks to get what you need. That said, oem spec on length cap to cap on mine is 36 feet 11 inches (11.253 meters). I suspect that is without the extra foot (0.1 meter) that the ladder up the rear consumes, but my later measurements will confirm. So I suspect that you will be under the 12.5 meter limit.
More later.
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
Photo
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)Scottcmb- Topics - 3
- Replies - 9
- Total - 12
Photo
Thank you John
My current 32FWS has the morryde pin box and find it brilliant matched up with the Hensley BD3 airbagged hitch.
Also i sent you a PM
Cheers Scotty :)
JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
Photos of oem spring shackle location versus my aftermarket MorRyde IS system
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
- Photos of oem spring shackle location versus my aftermarket MorRyde IS system
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
Scotty,
Sorry for the delay.
C/L of pin to furthest point on rear cap- 37 foot, 3 inches. The furthest back point is in the center of the cap. The rear cap is not quite as deep where the ladder mounts. The ladder is 37 foot, 9 inches from the c/l of the pin. Well under 12.5 meters.
AXLES
As I said, I have aftermarket IS suspension and 17.5 tires. As a result, my axles are probably just a few inches more forward than oem leaf springs, but probably not enough to make me think you can avoid moving the axles rearward in order to comply with local codes. (Scotty see last paragraph – there may still be hope).
My 17.5 tires are slightly larger diameter than oem 16-inch tires. The distance between the centerline between my two wheel hubs (equivalent to c/l of axles) and the furthest rear portion of the rear cap is 13 foot 4 inches (4.1 meters). To the ladder 13 foot 10 inches (4.2 meters). To be under 4 meters this measurement needs to be 13 feet 1.4 inches.
My centerline between my two wheel hubs is slightly forward of the c/l of the sheet metal wheel well skirting. I realize now that if I measure the center of that skirting opening to the rear of the cap and ladder, that might be c/l of oem axles. All we need to then do is have someone with oem axles confirm wheels are actually centered in the wheel well. Mine are not because I asked that the IS be installed slightly forward to reduce the heavy pin weight
The rear edge of my rear tire sits 4 inches forward of my (non-oem) mud flap that hangs down from the extreme rear of the wood wheel well. The metal wheel well skirting is slightly forward of the mud flap, so a little over 3 inches behind the rear most portion of my rear tire. The furthest forward portion of the Big Foot assembly sits 2.5 inches behind my mud flap. In contrast, the most forward portion of the forward tire sits a bit forward of the metal wheel well skirt
Unlike the skirting, The wheel-well housing itself is wood. The fella from Australia cut out the oem wheel-well metal skirt and shifted it back, moving the rear piece that needed to be cut out forward (or he had leftover from where he put in the rear door).
My pin box is a MorRyde Rubber shock absorbing one. C/L of pin is exactly 5 inches forward of the most forward portion of the cap. This meets oem spec pasted above (dimension “E”). This pin box allows me to open my tailgate when hooked up – my original oem pin box did not. So while the MoreRyde does improve the ride quality (chucking) and I do recommend it, you might save an inch or two of room with an oem hitch enabling you to avoid the need to move to move BigFoot mounts rearward to accommodate the rearward movement of axles.
As I typed this, I realized that I have my 5er raised via bigfoots to keep weight off tires while in storage. As I lower the 5er onto the wheels with the IS torsion-bar-like suspension, both the hubs and wheels of both front and rear axle move rearward. Doing this will likely move the c/l of my hubs more than an inch rearward – maybe giving you hope that Bigfoot assembly would not need to be move if axles do, and just maybe axles will not need to be moved either. So next trip to storage, I will lower the 5er and retake these measurements AND measure from the centerline of the metal skirting to the rear of the 5er/ladder. Stay tuned.
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)Scottcmb- Topics - 3
- Replies - 9
- Total - 12
Thanks John,
Your a bloody legend……. your efforts for helping me out will never be forgotten…. and hopefully if this takes off we can have a catch up get together when i fly over to buy some units. :)
Cheers
Scotty
JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
Scotty,
Sorry it has taken so long. I went back and lowered 5er weight onto my axles. They are pushing the extreme of each end of the wheel well, but loaded wheels are centered on the centerline of the wheel well trim.
I said earlier “My 17.5 tires are slightly larger diameter than oem 16-inch tires. The distance between the centerline between my two wheel hubs (equivalent to c/l of axles) and the furthest rear portion of the rear cap is 13 foot 4 inches (4.1 meters). To the ladder 13 foot 10 inches (4.2 meters). To be under 4 meters this measurement needs to be 13 feet 1.4 inches.”
So if we use the centerline of the wheel well trim which is likely for oem axles, the distance between that centerline and the furthest rear portion of the rear cap is the same 13 foot 4 inches (4.1 meters). To the ladder 13 foot 10 inches (4.2 meters). To be under 4 meters this measurement needs to be 13 feet 1.4 inches. Not happening.
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)Scottcmb- Topics - 3
- Replies - 9
- Total - 12
Hi Ya John….. thanks for that. With the measurements you stated…. looks like not much needed in the way of shifting the axles back, in other words that the chassis as is will still pass its structural engineered strength with that little bit extra length created with shifting the axles further back to meet the 4 meter rule. With the way these are designed, no extra reinforcing will be needed to strengthen the chassis especially with the extra length created from king pin to first spring hanger.
Cheers Scotty
JohnD222- Topics - 8
- Replies - 517
- Total - 525
Scotty,
Are you still interested in a Cameo 36FWS? I found a good 2010.
John
JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)Carlosokelly- Topics - 0
- Replies - 3
- Total - 3
We are selling our 37RSQ 2012 like New condition with many upgrades on here. And the dually
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