Access to Kitchen pipes

I have   2013 <mark class=”gdpos-keyword” data-markjs=”true”>LS37IK.   i have noticed after being in the camper for about 3 days i have water dripping between the first left tire and the sewer  line.     I am thinking i have a water line in the kitchen that may be leaking.   I see where the lines drop down but I don’t see a place to get access to them to look at them to see if they are leaking?    is there access from inside the camper?   or do i need attack it from the bottom?    if I go from the bottom what is the secret to get above the black under cover?</mark>

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[JohnD222ParticipantTopics - 8Replies - 518Total - 526]

Rob,

looking at your floor plan, I believe that your center island with sink is above the sewage or gray water  holding tank. If so, no way to access from below without dropping that tank.

There  is about 2.5 feet of height be lower the living area floor and insulation that covers those tanks. There is more insulation below those tanks.  All kinds of wires and pipes run through the 2.5-foot tall crawlway.  A willing teenager can probably get in there, but I doubt very much if this is the only access for faucet and non-glued drainage connections.  I suspect that the cabinet below the sink has a panel that can be removed to access the p-trap and the hot/cold water connections to the faucet.   I suspect the latter is your problem, but no promises.

JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)

[JohnD222ParticipantTopics - 8Replies - 518Total - 526]

Something went wrong with edits – not saved so wet back web page copied edits and pasted all below.

looking at your floor plan, I believe that your center island with sink is above the sewage or gray water  holding tank. If so, no way to access from below without dropping that tank.

There  is about 2.5 feet of height be lower the living area floor and insulation that covers those tanks. There is more insulation below those tanks.  All kinds of wires and pipes run through the 2.5-foot tall crawlway.  A willing teenager can probably get in there, but I doubt very much if this is the only access for faucet and non-glued drainage connections.  I suspect that the cabinet below the sink has a panel that can be removed to access the p-trap and the hot/cold water connections to the faucet.   I suspect the latter is your problem, but no promises.

to get to that 2.5-foot tall utility area, you need to remove the several panels on the rear wall of the main storage area.  The teenage-sized  access is probably under the stairs.

if I am wrong about your layout versus holding tank location, there should be a zippered access hole in the belly fabric about  beneath the sink.  Not the zippered access haul for the dinette slide which is almost at the outer wall of the 5er, nor the other one or two zippered access panels on the other outside edge of the 5er to move out the living room on the street (driver’s) side of the 5er.  Heavily silicone spray that zipper before and during any attempt to open or close it, or it will break apart and become unusable.  Replacement zipper panels are sold, but they are a last resort.

If you do have such a zippered access panel, there will be a large section of fiberglass directly above it. That belly fabric is a vapor barrier so is probably holding up a VERY soggy section of fiberglass insulation, and it will start raining on you as soon as you open the zipper.  If very heavy and you can feel a lot of water above it, you might wasn’t to punch a small hole in the fabric with a nail or razor.  Once dried out that hole can be sealed with tape.  Once the raining stops, push the wet fiberglass aside to access the pipes needing tightening or replacement.  The p-trap is likely to be a good 6-feet above the ground, as will the faucet connections – another reason I believe there is an access panel in the cabinet holding the sink

Even if pipes are accessible from the cabinet below the sink, to get the fiberglass insulation you will need to access the fiberglass from below.

So somehow you got your pipes to stop leaking  you still have a lot of very wet fiberglass that should be dried out if you want to avoid mold And mildew problems.  My belly was a continuous roll from front to back.  There were several scross metal trim pieces holding it up, in addition to similar trim metal pieces along the sides.  I found the heavy/soggy section and removed one cross metal trim pieces AFTER the water drained out cause otherwise it would be a mess to contain.  With a razor knife I cut completely across the 5er centering on the metal that the trim pieces screwed into.    This was not where the side trim pieces ended so I took a few screws out, bent the side trim a bit and cut it with sheet metal scissors or good side cutters.  Then I removed the second cross trim piece, and again razor knifed the fabric centered on the metal above.  Left the other side metal trim in place.  Rolled or folded  the fabric to that side out of the way.  Dragged the obvious wet fiberglass out carefully and draped it over a picnic table in the sun for 2 sunny days, rotating every few hours after the first 8.  Dry and smell free so I put it back in.

Not the easiest of tasks   Left to right side is ok because that is your opening. But because it went more than an arms length forward and back, but I used a couple appropriately long 1×4’s to lift one end into place.  With one end in place I tucked the insulation up above one more frame section into place  – actuall I fed it in over that further section to begin with.  There are a few metal cross sections above the fabric that do not have the metal trim pieces screwed int them.  Just feed the dry insulation  above them and use the 1×4 if needed to fish the other end piece into its proper position.
I cleaned up the razor cut areas of fabric about 3-inches back from the cut on both sides.  Not much cleanup on top, but alcohol removes grease and  preps the fabric for glue. The bottom, n hindsight I should have cleaned up before I cut the fabric with a razor knife,  I placed several sections of gorilla duct tape with glued side down above the fabric and pressed upward.  This holds the fabric square with the clean cuts perfectly together. Easier to do about 1/2 of the rear, 1/2 the front, the finish off the back, then finish off the front so it remains square.  There is no need for a continuous strip of gorilla tape across from the bottom, but because I had two rolls I could do it.  Again, but this time about 1/3 of distance across before moving from front to back, etc.

Now readty for the cross sheet metal trim pieces.  hope you remember which is which and which way they go, otherwise rake them both underneath and make sure the holes line up with the holes in the metal frame above.  The first screw is the hardest  I lined up the fabric by hand without the metal trim and used a thin nail to punch through the gorilla tape.  Two holes on each front and back on the side that you did not remove the side trim piece from.  once you have the first screw in on each cross trim piece, the rest are pretty east but DO NOT tighten any of them until alll screws are in place on both front and rear cross sections.  Again do a few screws on the rear cross trim, then a few on the front trim, rolling out the underside gorilla tape with glue face up as you go, pressing it firmly to form a bond with the fabric.  When all cross trims are done, the side piece should be fairly straight, with plenty of fabric to grab under the outside metal trim.  If screw holes don’t line up perfectly, just use a nail to start a new hole in the fabric where the first side trim screw goes.  The rest you should be able to just push the screw through the fabric into the metal frame above, but keep the side as square as possible.

my insulation was a full 8-feet wide.  A bit cumbersome when wet but not once dry.  If you wet insulation stinks when dry, I would not reuse it.  I think getting multiple pieces of new 24-inc wide stuff would be more difficult but doable

JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)

[expired-memberBlockedBlockedTopics - 86Replies - 191Total - 277]

WOW!  thanks for the info.   I have looked under the island sink for a access. and looked in the cabinets along the outside wall.    No visual door that I see.     I do have some zipper access under the camper.    With your detailed explanation (thanks a ton) I may need to get this toa shop.   Where I live, I can only park on a fairly busy neighborhood street.   Not sure I can accomplish all that on the street.

[JohnD222ParticipantTopics - 8Replies - 518Total - 526]

Rob,

 

being able to and willing to are very different things.  You would never need to stick your head out into traffic, or even close on street side (that side left in place), but if curbside is awkward or crowed by slope, I understand.  I did mine in a campground where I was staying for a week and they don’t frown on such activities, although it didn’t look like I was doing anything until I put the large sheet of fiberglass insulation on the picnic table to dry out.

JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)

[expired-memberBlockedBlockedTopics - 86Replies - 191Total - 277]

Again thanks JohnD222.    I brought the camper home today.   yes the island is above the tanks.   The only zippers I have are back by the wheels.  I have had the back wall off the in the main storage.  I don’t see any way of getting back in there where the pipes run.  However, I do see where they go until they make a 90 degree turn.   We are heading out again this wednesday or thursday.  While it is going to be cold It will allow me to empty the storage out and look back in there again and look for any access from inside.    That being said my wife and I have been thinking through the issue.    It seems to show itself on day 3 or after.  And it has happen after using the back wash for the black tank.    This tells me it is one of two things.   It takes 3 days for the water to saturate insulation and then make it to the outside to start dripping.   OR it has something to do with the backwash system.  I have added a photo.    in case it may give you some other ideas for advice to me.  or anyone else that may have an idea

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[JohnD222ParticipantTopics - 8Replies - 518Total - 526]

Rob,

Looks like a fair bit of water, not just something leaking between a wet countertop and thee seal around the faucet, faucet control or sprayer. I am not familiar with that model,other than looking at the floor plan on the gold member pages.   On most other models the sewage tank is forward of the grey tank, and the flush originates at the external utility closet, goes into the bathroom sink cabinet where there is a vacuum break valve.  Mine and many other had those cheap valves break and leak.  We replaced with stick house quality valves.

Internal p-trap vents under all sinks and at the washer/dryer prep drain are similar cheap stuff that let fumes from the grey tank enter the living space giving it a musty smell after being closed up for a few days, but I digress.

If your sewage tank is also the forward tank, leakage can ge rearward before it finds an exit, but that exit should be between the tanks, not all the way to the rear of the gray tank.  So I doubt it is sewer flush, but…

if you have someone run the sewage flush you can look inside the bathroom sink cabinet and hear the flush valve working, and hopefully see or feel that it is not leaking.  Also check to see that it is not leaking when you turn the flush off. On my floor plan I could also see water leaking from that valve during flush and also later on a heater duct above the curb side door to the main storage area. That is directly below the bathroom sink.  Looking at your floor plan (Gold Member pages), it looks like you could see below your bathroom sink with the rear panels of the storage area removed because your sink is in the middle of the 8-foot wide camper.  Mine is at the curb wall.

My two access panels in the rear are on both sides, not in the middle, and are there to access the dinette slide motor and the synchronizing bars of the FWS. If you also only have two on the outer extremities, they would be to access your slide motors on each side, but sticking a flashlight and your head into one should allow you to see a lot of the area under your center island sink, certainly enough to confirm the location of the water-in hoses and drain pipe from that sink, and if there were any unions that could be tightened below the occupied space floor or anyone could reach them without dropping a tank!

if you don’t have a 3rd access opening more in the center of the 5er width, I would revisit the cabinet beneath the sink.  Most hoses on faucets are less than 2-feet long, so would barely reach the floor let alone drop below it into that massive interstitial space below the floor but above the tanks and fabric.  Possible lifestyle found some with 5-foot ones, or worse an extension that also has a Union that could leak in the middle.

can you take a picture of what you see in the island cabinet below the sink?

is an entire center section of that cabinet excluded from any storage for pots, pans or stuff?  If so, I think your answer for finding and fixing the leak  is cutting into that area from one side or the other. By side I mean fore/aft so you do not impact the outer cabinet appearance, but rather only when you are putting away pots. A shallow cut dremmel is much safer than a long saws-all blade that might hit a hose.  The worst case is you cut a hose that otherwise would only need a connection tightened. They make plastic access doors to cover up any such holes you create, but I would simply add a 1×2 on the inside all the way around. Hold that up on the inside, half showing & half not, and screw into it from the remaining perimeter area, then hold the cut away piece in place and screw that into the remaining exposed edge of the 1×2.  If you can feel a horizontal cross support, I would make 2 such access panels leaving that horizontal support in tack.

that is all that I can offer. Where is the 5er located?

 

JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)

[JohnD222ParticipantTopics - 8Replies - 518Total - 526]

Rob,

 

another thought.  Measure how far rearward from the doorway the centerline of the sinks is.  This is one of two locations the supply line from the bottom fabric area are.  The drain probably drops not from the center but from the center of one or the other sinks. Lifestyle may have run the supply lines that route into the fabric area.  My guess is that there is a 4-8 inch wide divider in the base cabinet where you cannot put pots etc because it contains those pipes, one of which has come lose and is leaking.

JohnD222
Based in Florida except summer
2013 36FWS Lifestyle (our great 2010 Cameo 36FWS has happy owners)

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