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CLOC-AdminI was reading on the old forum about problems with this unit getting hot and possible fire, and how many have taking it out or replaced with different brand. I have 2007 35sb3 with gen prep no generator does anyone know if I have one of these in my coach or where to look for it thanksPosted: 4:50 PM – Jan 12, 2013In our 36 max1 it was located behind the removable wall panel in the basement. Ours was humming all the time so I pulled it out. We didnt need it.Posted: 6:14 PM – Jan 13, 2013Can’t honestly say if you have one, JohnR, but on my ’11 35SB3 it’s behind the rear wall of the basement, driver’s side of the 5ver. When I originally went looking for it, I found it by taking off the cold air return grill, laying down on the floor, sticking my head in the compartment as far as possible, then looking down toward the FRONT of the trailer. It was sitting by itself just behind the rear wall.Posted: 6:34 PM – Jan 13, 2013Here is a pic of the sorry transfer switch Carriage put in my rig. Notice the ground wire running directly over the connections. That could have been a real problem. Not needing it I pulled it out and while I was in there I ran a 20 amp plug to the fromt compartment.
Image no longer available. Deleted by ImageShack – Please Repost Image if possible with new methodPosted: 7:25 PM – Oct 20, 2013Chip what do you us the 20 amp plug for.I’M not using the gen prep either so will take it out!
Has any one ever place a fire detector in the basement? I have though of doing this since I have a extra one.Did place a fire extinguisher in last fiver behind and top of fridge.
Not being as much space behind there in Cameo I need a elbow in it.have a good day. Thanks for the replies.
Posted: 7:42 PM – Oct 20, 2013My basement flooded this summer due to a sticking valve on the toilet.It led me to the transfer switch which was behind a panel in the basement, seem to be really hot. After opening it I noticed the neutral and hot wires were almost melted together. Thank the Lord for the flooded basement as it led us to the faulty lota transfer switch. We did the research with other rigs that have this switch, the summary is if you have one get rid of it or check the connections. The company says its the installers fault and the company (no longer in business) would say that lota is the fault. Best bet, get rid of it, our almost burned our rig down, it was that hot. We replace it with a progressive dynamics, made in the usa.Posted: 8:23 PM – Oct 20, 2013Our rig had the progressive in it when we bought it.
I’ll look at the transfer switch box in basement closer.
My toilet did the same as yours and also found out the
faucet in Shower had slow leak(ordered dometic toilet 310).
They sure don’t organize the wires and pipes very well
behind the wall.
Kind of sloppy craftsmanship to me.Posted: 8:45 AM – Oct 23, 2013I’m kinda’ stupid in regards to this transfer switch. I have the generator prep but NO GENERATOR (actually use a portable Honda). Does that mean I do not need the transfer switch? Mine hums too and I would like to eliminate the hum.Thanks……Paul
Posted: 10:27 AM – Oct 23, 2013If there is no need for the transfer switch you can be remove it. The guts can be pulled from the transfer switch case, the wires going to the generator side abandoned and the wires from the shore power connected to the feed to the 110v panel. If you are not comfortable with electrics you will want some assistance. I didn’t like the hum and removed mine and then decided to install a front shore power plug and an inverter so I reconnected it. For some odd reason it is quieter – probably just my hearing getting worse.Posted: 10:42 AM – Oct 23, 2013I have a transfer switch in ou rig, pprobably as part of the generator prep package. We have a Honda 2000, that we plug into the trailer plug, plus a Magnum 2800 pure sine inverter/charger. I am not sure if the inverter has a transfer switch, but on my remote panel, I can manually switch to inverter and theoretically power all 110 volt plugs and appliances. I wonder if I need the generator connection in my transfer switch? I do have the hum.Thanks
Posted: 9:39 PM – Oct 23, 2013Transfer switches are there so only one power source feeds the 5er at any time. You set priority, but it is usually shore power over generator over inverter. For this to work, you need to have two transfer switches. If no inverter, or no generator, just one transfer switch is needed.If you run a generator straight into the shore power inlet on the side of the rv, no transfer switch is needed, but you do need to turn off breakers to be sure you do not overload the generator accidentally. You can get humming of the transfer switch if you are overloading the generator, even if going directly to the 5er shore power inlet rather than the factory connections in the forward storage. When on inverter power you should be sure that your converter or smart charger is not receiving power from the inverter as that circular loop is a total waste of battery power.
Posted: 6:34 AM – Oct 24, 2013So….you should keep the transfer switch???? I wasn’t aware that you should plug a portable generator (Honda) in the front storage area instead of simply using an adapter on the regular shore power plug.Posted: 8:28 AM – Oct 24, 2013weaverworks wrote:So….you should keep the transfer switch???? I wasn’t aware that you should plug a portable generator (Honda) in the front storage area instead of simply using an adapter on the regular shore power plug.If you run your generator into the shore power cord you don’t need the transfer switch. Here is what I used to re-wire my transfer switch.
Chip
Posted: 8:42 AM – Oct 24, 2013If you are off grid, using the plug you describe should be fine. However, having a low amperage/watt generator plugged in this way may be what makes some transfer switches hum; particularly if the transfer switch is a 50 amp one.If you have lost shore power temporarily using the wiring in forward storage will allow the transfer switch to automatically switch back to shore power when it comes back on. Since your generator is not electric auto start, the transfer switch can’t fire up the generator for you, but with shore power “out” it will allow power to flow from the generator wiring in the forward storage area. You can install a generator “in” outlet at any convenient spot in your 5er and run wires to those in forward storage or directly to the transfer switch. One other useful purpose of this procedure is that when a transfer switch is installed it usually has a subpanel so only select circuits are powered by the generator. You might find the factory’s selection of these circuits is not to your liking. It could also be that the factory assumed a big whole house generator and there is no subpanel.
Most transfer switches can be used for generators or inverters, but ones with integrated charger/converters may be single application. Also, you don’t need a 50 amp switch for an inverter, a 30 amp transfer switch is fine, but for a big generator you may need/want a 50 amp transfer switch.
weaverworks wrote:So….you should keep the transfer switch???? I wasn’t aware that you should plug a portable generator (Honda) in the front storage area instead of simply using an adapter on the regular shore power plug.Posted: 9:20 AM – Jan 05, 2014Chip,
Where did you get the three way splice connectors? What is brand name? I could not find them locally. And by the way my slide motor support bearing mod is still working well.
ChuckPosted: 10:25 AM – Jan 05, 2014chuck wrote:Chip,
Where did you get the three way splice connectors? What is brand name? I could not find them locally. And by the way my slide motor support bearing mod is still working well.
ChuckI purchased them at a local contractor electrical supply shop.
Posted: 10:58 AM – Jan 05, 2014They are called MULTI-CABLE INSULATED CONNECTOR BLOCK and they are pricey.
Here is a place that has them if you cant find an elecrtical supply. Mine are the 97314
https://www.midsouthelectronics.com/Powerconnector.htmPosted: 2:24 PM – Jan 05, 2014I forgot to mention that if you are just wanting to bypass the transfer switch you will only need a double connector block. I used a triple so I could run a dedicated 20 amp plug in the front storage compartment using the gen prep wire that was already in place.
Posted: 10:12 PM – Jan 05, 2014Chip,
Thanks for the info and pictures. Will be buying some tomorrow.
ChuckPosted: 12:06 AM – Jul 15, 2017There was a major recall by IOTA for defective transfer switches, but the deal they worked out was only through the manufacturer. Sadly Carriage was gone and we were left hanging. You can find all the info on the nhtsa site – the recall covers all models and multiple years, not just the 35FB3. I called IOTA and was basically told “too bad, but only through manufacturer” and there was nothing else they could do. (They are still in business).Another owner sent me a pic of the one that failed on his Cameo – faint smell of something burning was what got them looking for cause.
On my unit, it is buried in the space behind the steps – in the pic of my unit, the white tube on the bottom is the sewer hose storage tube. The second pic is the one that failed for him.
Just putting this out as a reminder to anyone that has the ITS-50R to at least check it. I am replacing it with a better one as well as getting rid of any other items made by IOTA – just don’t trust them.
Stay safe!
Bill
My transfer switched saved me a lot of money one time I was plugged in to power that turned out to be way low voltage. We were inside and all of the sudden the most horrible electrical/grinding type noise started coming from under the stairs. I ran over and pulled the plug for the 5r. The wiring on the land side that we were plugged into had gotten so hot it was melting. Turns out that the transfer switch also prevents out of range electrical current from passing through it. This feature is listed in the specs. Turns out the receptacle was only putting out 70 volts which likely would have ruined a lot of my electronics. I would think twice before just removing it because you don’t have a generator. It likely saved me a bunch of money and aggravation. Just something to consider.I have a surge protector device but it didn’t prevent the out of range current from passing through.
Edit: I have noticed when the voltage is low the unit hums. If it drops too low, the transfer switch contactor opens stopping power from passing through it. This is why when you flip the breaker on for your unit you will hear a thump. That thump is the mechanical movement of the contactor switch closing to allow current to pass. This is because inside of the transfer switch is a 110V contactor, i.e. it takes +-110V to close.
This is my understanding of how it works anyway, though I am not an electrician. I know to replace this unit is a lot cheaper than replacing all your electronics.
Here is the manual:
Posted: 9:55 AM – Jul 16, 2017Thanks. Looking at the GoPower IC-2000 to replace both IOTA devices. Don’t need generator hookup, but if I did, would add a switch for it. This way I gain an inverter. Will put the remote for it where the gen set panel is. Those IOTA transfer switches are a fire hazard – read the NHTSB recall. We got screwed because Carriage was out of business.Btw – always use a surge protector. Planning to go to hardwired one when I add the autoformer.
Thanks
BillPosted: 10:57 AM – Jul 16, 2017I looked at the pictures of the inside of the Iota switch and think that mine must have been swapped for another brand before I bought the unit. It does not have one continuous bar with lugs across the top like the IOTA. It has been awhile since I looked at it, but if memory serves it looks more like two individual contacts with lugs on each one, and the lugs run the opposite direction.Here is the IOTA:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2015/R … 1-7087.pdfMine looks more like this:
http://tweetys.com/rv-auto-transfer-rel … gIMw_D_BwEThe point I was trying to make though remains the same. That these switches could save your electronics even if you don’t have a generator. At least that was my experience.
Posted: 12:33 PM – Jul 16, 2017Got it – yours sounds like a later design. Agree that any transfer switch should have some protections built in. Upgrading to a better quality part is always wise – do the work once and don’t worry about it.My reason for posting was to remind owners (especially “new to them”) units should be checked. Having it fail while out on a trip would ruin the trip.
————————
Posted: 9:37 AM – Jul 17, 2017Here is a picture of what my Iota did. Very scary. I replaced with the Progressive. I would recommend pulling the Iota out and replacing no matter what. Cheap plastic and warm electrical connectors are a very bad match. This happened while parked inside my barn and plugged into my 50 amp outlet. I have the hardwired Progressive surge protector, so I know that my power in was good. The only power draw inside the camper was a small space heater for the winter and the fridge.
Posted: 11:48 AM – Jul 17, 2017Ours blew about a year ago whilst hooked up to a 10kw Wrico about a month after we bought it (used) from Guaranty (guaranty to take the money and run) with an extended warranty service. They were the original dealers and didn’t bother to check that the Iota had been recalled when prepping. I called them, they said they didn’t know about it but if we were off grid they wouldn’t cover it… Funny they tried like heck to sell me a Cummins based genset during purchase.
I just switched it over to a straight junction box as I won’t be running a generator, and if I do, it will be on the truck.
I found some pretty poor wiring practices that came from the mfg. Both transfer box and wiring pics attached.Wiring that was a feed line outside the old box.
Transfer boXx
Posted: 7:15 AM – Jul 18, 2017I’ve read all of these posts and am not sure if I have a Iota transfer switch in my Cameo? I do have the Progressive hard wired surge protector. I’ve never seen one and I’ve looked everywhere. Anyone have any idea if I have one? I don’t have a generator or the prep for one.Posted: 7:43 AM – Jul 18, 2017I found mine under the steps. Access is via the main storage compartment back wall. You will need to take a few screws out of the top and bottom holding the wall in place to get to it. Pretty easy.Btw – Found a lot of space behind it, so cut an opening and installed a plexiglass sliding access panel.
Posted: 3:15 PM – Aug 07, 2017Well travelling back from Arizona and staying overnight in Utah early April/17, we had the heat pump on, fireplace and water heater on electric. I started to smell wires burning. I searched and could not find the source. It was coming from somewhere under the stairs to the bedroom. I lost no power at all. When we got home I looked on the forum for info and sure enough it was the IOTA 50 amp transfer switch. You will see it was the neutral wire on the shore power source.
I replaced it with the Progressive Dynamic 50 amp today. As some have indicated there is a humming from the box so I mounted the switch flat on the floor with 1/2 neoprene foam under the tabs and taped the cover of the box. There is absolutely no noise coming from the box now.
Any more issues and I will bypass the switch all together as Falconhunter has done.
Posted: 4:11 PM – Aug 07, 2017Not trying to throw a monkey wrench in here. Just make sure you don’t have an imbalanced load on the neutral. If that occurred you could get high amps on the neutral and cause a similar situation.Posted: 8:29 AM – Aug 08, 2017Part-time,Any info as to what happens inside a transfer switch is always related. Can you elaborate?
I know loose or corroded connections can start this too, but, like you, I am thinking that the browning of the neutral can come from too many small inductive heaters on constantly on the same leg, with no or only intermittant water heater or microwave on the other, but could it come from an inductive heaters on the same leg as microwave that is used ocassionaly, and it is that occasional that starts the browning. Even though there is no corrosion or lose terminals (yet), I suspect that in the longer term result in something more serious like a relay failure with partial closing and yikes!.
All these inductive heaters, even the fireplace, seem to be 1500 watts, with only a few having a low speed/coil heat setting. Because of intermittant hot water and microwave loads, it is tough to balance.
My neutrals have started browning at the GoPower transfer switches (one for generator and another for inverter) but main leads coming into the first transfer switch, and main lead at the 5er breaker panels are still white. Any Thoughts?
On several occasions in cooler weather, I have been in campgrounds with 30 amp only. Though I have never blown circuits at the camp post or in the 5er, the power cord got very warm to the touch more than once when I used an inductive heater and forget to shift the water heater to propane. (No bad ground or neutral readings at campgtround and both ends of the 5er cord are white and all connections tight. )
Thanks in advance.
Partimewages wrote:Not trying to throw a monkey wrench in here. Just make sure you don’t have an imbalanced load on the neutral. If that occurred you could get high amps on the neutral and cause a similar situation.Posted: 10:08 AM – Aug 08, 2017I’m not always good at explanation. My wife tells me communication is not my thing! I will try.
If you have a 120 volt circuit it circuit should have a HOT, NEUTRAL and GROUND. GROUND should be zero always no exception. If it is not you have a problem. The HOT NEUTRAL relationship should be equal all the time no exception. Measured amp on the HOT leg will equal measured amps on the NEUTRAL. Old theory what goes in must come out. (Side note this is what a GFCI does if not equal it trips. It fiqures if not equal the amps are going somewhere they should not, maybe through you!)A 50 amp RV hook up is a 240 volt circuit with 2 120 volt legs(HOT wires) If you measure voltage HOT to HOT you will get 240 volts. If you measure HOT to NEUTRAL you will get 120 volts. If you have two of the 120 volt circuits both pulling 15 amps the NEUTRAL amps at the panel out to the RV hookup will be 0 amps. If you have one 120 volt circuit pulling 15 amps and the other pulling 12 amps the NEUTRAL will be 3 amps. This is fine in electrical terms.
Inductive loads are motors or coils. A fireplace, hair dryer or box heater are resistive loads. Yes they have a motor but that motor draws very little amps compared to the resistive strip. Electric heaters generally are 1250 to 1800 watts(10.4 to 15 amps). In nearly all RV situations we have very little inductive loads unless modified with some type of larger AC motors or in some cases solar(another topic). Most RV motor loads are 12 volt DC.
Internal to the RV you will have some wiring that will power the whole coach from the single 30 amp 120 volt plug in(30 amp x 120 volt=3600 watts total available). A 50 amp service (2 HOTS 120 volt x 2=240 volt). Two 120 volt 50 amp(50 amp x 120 volt=6000 watts + 50 amp x 120 volt=6000 watts) for 12000 watts available. If not wired correctly you could have over 3600 watts (30 amps) on a #10 NEUTRAL wire only rated for 30 amps.
I brought this up because the pictures show white wires burned and that is usually a good indicator of an imbalance in load. Also could have been because they were in the centernof the terminal strip and the head could not get away.
The only way to check the inbalance would be with an amp meter with the loads running. If you get a warm cord this does not mean you have inbalanced loads. All electrical circuits have a rating 15 amp, 20 amp, 25 amp etc. National Electric Code is not to exceed 80% of circuit rating. 12 amps om a 15 amp circuit, 16 on a 20 circuit and 24 on a 30 amp circuit. Two 1500 watt loads (heaters)on a 30 amp circuit you have maxed out the cord and breakers.
NUTSHELL HERE:
Discoloring of any wire is bad! It will fail at some point. Needs further investigation.
Inductive motor loads causing the issue highly unlikely. Just not enough AC motors on board.
Solar which I only have limited experience with maybe because inverter/converter. And so many different set ups.
Warm cord on 30 amp service as long as not pass the 80% rule is fine.
More question are fine. Safety first!If Ithis needs moved to a new location please move it.
Posted: 4:03 PM – Aug 08, 2017Partimewages knows more than I do on this but I’ll take guess at why IOTA panels fail……IOTA (maybe Go Power) connects the 6ga power wires to a terminal strip. On one side of the terminal strip there is 6ga on the other 2-10ga wires that go to the relay. This works if the load is balanced between the 2 power legs Hot 1 and Hot 2. IOTA uses 1 relay for the neutrals and 1 for the Hot 1 and Hot 2.
If the distribution panel is wired so that the HW tank, Fireplace, AC are connected to the same same 50 amp leg (say Hot 1) the 10ga neutral wire in the IOTA panel has to carry load from those appliances….if each of the 3 appliance is drawing 12amps then the 10ga wire is carrying 36amps.
In a PD all 3 legs of the shore power run through 1 relay and the 6ga connects directly to both sides of the relay. An unbalanced load will not harm a the PD since the wire and connections can carry more amperage.
The PD uses 10ga from the generator relay. As I understand (or maybe I don’t) the 10ga can be used on a generator up to 6000w.
Posted: 8:01 PM – Aug 08, 2017Great info. All makes sense. What I did find was the terminal for the output neutral wire was loose. I removed it, clean the wires and reinstalled at the proper torque. No more smell. The switch was removed and replaced as soon as I got home. I love this forum. Great info on the network. Thanks.By the way. Both times I smelled burning wires I was plugged into a 30 Amp outlet.
Posted: 10:20 PM – Aug 08, 2017Many thanks,I stand corrected- I should have said resistive.
Three takeaways that directly apply to me:
1. “Two 1500 watt loads (heaters)on a 30 amp circuit you have maxed out the cord and breakers.” In my case a portable heater and forgetting to turn hot water to propane, or water is on propane and I forget to turn off portable heater before running microwave.
2. Replace all of the two 10 gauge wires pairs in the transfer switch with 6 gauge. Go-power has this same setup.
3. Don’t forget items in #1 ever, but especially until I complete #2.
Many thanks.
Posted: 10:51 PM – Aug 08, 2017I love these heaters….must have 7 or 8 of them. In the winter I put one in the truck on a timer set at 600W. In the morning the truck (diesel) is warm and windows are defrosted.There are 5 heat settings
Anti Freeze mode
600W fan low
900W fan low
900W fan high
1500W fan highPosted: 12:22 AM – Aug 09, 2017Berndawg wrote:1/2 neoprene foam under the tabs. /quote]Please elaborate on what the 1/2 neoprene foam is, as my PD also has a hum and I checked inside and all connections and wires looked good.
Thanks
RickPosted: 8:38 AM – Aug 09, 2017With these rigs bouncing down the road as they do. We should be checking our electrical screw connections on a regular basis. At least once a year or more. Heat at the connections will start a loose connection and the vibration will not help.Posted: 11:26 AM – Aug 09, 2017The foam was a 1″ wide x 1/2″ thick sticky on one side foam tape. I got mine at Canadian tire. I put strips under the box and screwed it to the floor. Be careful the screws aren’t too long because your black tank is directly under the location of the transfer box if you have a Carriage. I then used Gorilla tape and put a couple of strips to tighten up the cover. No vibration. I tested it without the foam and tape and the box had a constant hum. Be sure your relays are clean and free of dirt and dust because that also can cause humming .Posted: 4:06 AM – Oct 21, 2017Well, I got ambitious and get rid of transfer switch completely and re ran the wiring to free up that space. The twist I put on it was extending in shore power line to inside front compartment ending at a female 50 amp outlet. Had to use a junction box to add the outlet. Also added a junction box to run the generator wiring to the a/c panel. I re-used the gen prep wire to get Power from front compartment to a/c panel. Initially, put a 50amp male plug on the end of the gen wiring so could plug it into the femaile fo get Power to a/c panel. The setup lets me use my progressive surge protector inside front compartment – locked up. Can also use a Hughes autformer as well – again keeping it locked up. Next up will be adding an inverter.After reading all the horror stories I would really advise every RV owner to know what type of transfer switch they have if one is installed at all. If it’s an IOTA get rid of it and take no chances. You have all of 30 seconds to get out of a burning RV and not knowing If you have that hidden hazard isn’t worth it. Better safe than sorry my RVing friends.Posted: 11:24 AM – Oct 26, 2017When I traced the shore power wire through the trailer with a Tone (great tool to have) Meter there was 54′ of 8/3 wire inside the trailer. Between the wire in the trailer and a 30′ shore power cord the voltage drop is (not including plugs or TS) 4-5 volts.I’ve rerouted things with liquid tight so the run is 40′ and I’ll probably use 6/3 wire, bypassing TS to a 4 way (shore1-shore2-Inverter-OFF) rotary transfer switch using a 50 amp breaker for each shore power plug.
B.W.Gentry
Owner/Admin
2007 Carri-Lite XTRM5
Breckenridge, TX
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