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CLOC-AdminUsing Solar Panels???
https://carriage-lifestyle-owners.com/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=288
Page 2 of 4Posted: 1:49 PM – Dec 27, 2013bc1iron wrote:We installed a solar system about 3 years ago;Two 135 watt panels (roof mounted) into 4 Trojan T-105 6v batteries. The batteries are in a sealed marine grade battery box, i mounted a heat acvivated 12v exhaust fan to the top of the box and direct vented it out the side of the coach. I run a 2000 watt pure sighn wave inverter with a remote switch located inside the coach. Built my own transfer switch that provides 3 way switching, Shoreline – Inverter – Genset (i found the factory trans switch noisy and understand there have been instances of fires). Thought it best to make the system goof proof! As well, all 12 v cables between battery bank and inverter are minimum #1 welding cable. Heavy cable and short cable runs are a big plus in preventing power loss!
Cheers,What type of Solar Charge controller are you using? I currently have a cheap Coleman that is over charging my batteries. How long can you watch TV with this set-up?
Posted: 5:25 PM – Dec 27, 2013The solar system I have started to install on the 38RS is (6) 6 volt deep cycle batts with temp sensor, (5) Kyocera 140 watt solar panels, TriStar MPPT 60 amp controller, Morningstar remote digital meter, Samlex 2000 watt inverter with the S-R6-12 remote control. The 38RS is in the shop for warranty work. One of the warranty problems is, I ordered and paid for 3 #6 wires to be installed in the front compartment and run up on the roof by the front a/c. The 3 #6 wires are in the front compartment, but we could not find them on the roof. Rod tells me the wires are under a cap by the front a/c. There was no cap. After he asked the line forman, he tells me they ran them to the back of the rear a/c under the roof. Big mistake on Lifestyle. Way to long of a run with to much voltage drop. No one seems to know why in the world they ran them so far away, if they are under the roof membrain marked with a X. Mean while. The best solution is to install the wiring as it should have been done as that is how my system is designed. Or additional solar equipment and labor is need because of the large voltage drop. Either way. Lifestyle needs to stand up and take care of there mistake. No answer on this yet.Lillyputz
Posted: 7:47 PM – Dec 27, 2013Does Lifestyle provide solar panel wiring as standard equipment? Our 2011 Cameo has solar wiring which terminates in a cap behind the front A/C unit. I am not sure if it was part of the package for Canadian destined units as our was.Did you install all 6 batteries in the front compartment? We have 2 AGM’s in the front compartment and 2 on the side. We have a Magnum Pure Sine inverter, 2800 watts. Our weakness is only 2 solar panels of 95 watts each. Additional panels are $500 each
Rick
Posted: 8:28 AM – Dec 28, 2013RWB,Solar prep was on option on some, but the big problem is the small diameter (gauge) wire they use. It believe that it is 10 gauge, which is ok for less than 100 watts of total panel (one or two small panels) feeding one 12 volt battery or two 6 volt batteries. However, you lose way too much voltage through line loss if you are trying to keep even those batteries fully charged This is why Lillyputz spec’d 6 gauge. You will find that most panels come with 10-12 gauge wire because thicker is not needed because the volts haven’t gone very far yet. All of your connections and runs from the panels should be with thicker wire. The longer the run, the thicker it needs to be. This is why Lillyputz spec’d 6 gauge from the roof to the solar controller or battery location.
For the most balanced battery draw down and charging, all batteries should be equal size and age, and all connections between batteries should be of equal gauge and length, even if the length is not needed . Are your batteries 6 or 12 volts? If 6”s, you can have them physically separated like you do by wiring so you 12 volts come from one 6 in the forward storage, and one 6 from the stock battery compartment; not a 12 volt pack in the storage area and another 12 volt pack in the battery compartment. Wire the other pair the same way. Then connect them to double the amps available.
Be sure to enclose and vent any batteries placed in the forward storage. Sealed AGM’s not so much, but others all give off varying amounts of sulfuric acid which is very corrosive, particularly to the electrical components in an inverter or solar controller.
Regarding only having 190 total watts of panels, this is fine when paired with four 6-volt batteries for modest use for a moderate number of days that are sunny and long. Your usage (total amp draw) will determine how long you can go without the need for starting a generator or plugging into shore power. For maximum battery life, you do not want to draw batteries below 60% capacity too often. Need more amps for your planned trip- the cheapest way is adding a battery or two. It will take even longer to fully recharge the extra batteries. Going to use this amperage all the time – add more panels, or a small portable generator. Don’t spend extra $ on a generator with a 12 volt feed or use that feed if you have it; you get way more charging power by plugging the 5er’s smart charger or the whole 5er directly into the generator.
Unless you live off the grid for long periods all of the time, and you just don’t have the power you need for the duration you want, battery abuse might cost you a set of batteries a year or two early. A small price to pay versus rewiring and adding panels. The best that you can do for the system is keep the terminals free of corrosion, and keeping the batteries filled with distilled water.
Yes i love the larger battery pack and larger inverters to start motors like the vacuum or 150psi air compressor, but they need really large wires (think finger diameter 1, 0, 00, or -1 gauge depending upon the separation ),and short runs between the inverter and the batteries. With smaller wires or an undersized/undercharged battery pack you will starve the inverter – you simply won’t be getting the inverter’s full output which maybe not needed anyway. Taking small wires to an extreme extreme you could fry those wires.
rwb_wl wrote:Does Lifestyle provide solar panel wiring as standard equipment? Our 2011 Cameo has solar wiring which terminates in a cap behind the front A/C unit. I am not sure if it was part of the package for Canadian destined units as our was.Did you install all 6 batteries in the front compartment? We have 2 AGM’s in the front compartment and 2 on the side. We have a Magnum Pure Sine inverter, 2800 watts. Our weakness is only 2 solar panels of 95 watts each. Additional panels are $500 eachRick
Posted: 10:00 AM – Dec 28, 2013rwb_wl wrote:Does Lifestyle provide solar panel wiring as standard equipment? Our 2011 Cameo has solar wiring which terminates in a cap behind the front A/C unit. I am not sure if it was part of the package for Canadian destined units as our was.Did you install all 6 batteries in the front compartment? We have 2 AGM’s in the front compartment and 2 on the side. We have a Magnum Pure Sine inverter, 2800 watts. Our weakness is only 2 solar panels of 95 watts each. Additional panels are $500 each
Rick
I don’t know if Lifestyle runs wire as standard for solar. Others that do, Always run them to the front a/c. but, I did talked to Diamon and Scott about my request for (3) #6 before I ordered and I talked to Scott after I ordered to make sure Lifestyle installed them as per my request, front compartment to front a/c (Scott said we do this all the time)and I was charged for them.
I had two 2″ square stock with a lip on the front and back, installed in the front compartment from frame to frame, high enough to remove the generator or anything else that might need to be removed for repairs. I used 1/2″ plywood for the shelf. The (6) batts are on the drivers side. one in front of one other for a set of three with lots of room for what ever. I plan on installing the inverter in the outside batt compartment as it will be isulated from the rest of the system, close to the battery bank and the batt compartment is already ventilated.
I still have alot of work to do, once I get the unit back from warrant repairs.
I ordered my solar system from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun, Inc. After talking with Dave at 800-383-0195. They are very sharp on RV solar, Hense, The special ordered #6 wire to the front a/c not the rear a/c.
The Kyocera 140 watt panels were $285.60.
Hope this helps.Lillyputz.
Posted: 12:17 PM – Dec 28, 2013When looking into solar. you need to decide if you are going to hook up your panels in parallel or series. This will determen you equipment and wiring. Parallel requires heaver wiring. The advantage of parallel is, if one panel gets shaded, it does not knock out the electrical supply of the other panels. Wired in series you can use smaller wire, But if one panel is shaded by a tree, a/c or anything, the entire system is affected with little or no power getting to your batteries. The system that was designed for me, whitch I bought was for a parallel system. The only two options I now have is (1)The #6 wires be installed as they should have. (2) I have to buy another panel and wire two sets of three in series because of the voltage drop, appro 10% and length of the wire run. Besides the extra equiptment and labor, if there is room. I would have to make sure the sun is not shaded from the top of my rig for most of the day. #2 is not exceptable.Lillyputz
Posted: 2:50 PM – Dec 28, 2013Thanks John and LillyputzI had the selling dealer install the solar panel but I believe Carriage used #10 wire. The dealer installed my large Magnum inverter on the wall of the front compartment, and it was necessary for me to install the battery box below the inverter. Magnum suggested that the batteries not be located below the inverter, due to off-gassing. Despite sealed batteries, I vented the box outside. I used the battery cables specified by Magnum, 3/4″ in diameter each and have the batteries wired in series and parallel so that all batteries are charged by the Magnum and when used for 110 volts, all batteries supply conversion to AC power.
I have a 2000 watt Honda generator that we can use for backup power. If I ever ordered a new trailer, I would specify 6 gauge wire, for reasons cited by John and Lillyputz
The inside battery box and inverter setup follows
Image no longer available. Deleted by ImageShack – Please Repost Image if possible with new methodPosted: 8:58 AM – Dec 29, 2013RWB,In most cases, it isn’t too difficult to run heavier wiring from the roof to the area behind the rear black wall of the main basement storage (a good spot for the controller or not), then onto the forward area where your batteries are. The trick is to find out first how much room you have to feed the wire down along the sewer vent pipe. These pipes often take a bend halfway down, so wire fishing in two stops is often needed. My vent to the roof goes up the wall of my bathroom which houses the water level indicators and my slide switches. I removed the indicator to see how much room was there- plenty for my need. There was also space for me to zip tie both strands of the heavy 6 gauge wire to the vent pipe so there is less weight on the rooftop connections. The wires you see there all come up from the basement so you should be able to fish a line down, or up from the bottom. You need two people one on top and one on bottom. I found fishing upward from the bottom worked better because there isn’t much space between the vent pipe and the hole in the floor that it passes through. I fished 3 lead wires – one to pull the pair of 6 gauge, one to pull the wiring for the controller readout panel that i mounted above the level indicators, one for the next time i want to pull wires to this location..
Then up to the roof with dicor and tools to remove the vent cap. Cap off, i found that the vent pipe did not reach the roof, effectively venting a lot of moisture and smell into the roof cavity, but i digress…
Is there enough space between the vent pipe and the wood roofing and the subroof framing? Mine was tight fit so i enlarged with drill 1/2 inch away from the pipe, then enlarged back towards the pipe with a large round file, after starting out with a smaller one. Fish a line from the top down to the level indicator location.
If you need to go get supplies, simply put the vent cap back on and dicor the screw heads lightly.
Ok you can get a pair of 6 gauge wires or already have a pair the wires in the roof cavity – now how to get them through the roof into a rooftop junction box that connects to your panels. Within the roof cavity you can fish left and right above the insulation quite a lot, but most fore/aft is limited by roof framing. I chose my location and put a hole in the back of a watertight electrical junction box, dicor and screw it to the roof decking. Bring solar panel wiring (via heavy gauge from panel leads) into that box.
Posted: 11:27 AM – Dec 29, 2013Thanks John.
I’m still waiting on Lifestyle about the wiring screw up. The shop that is doing the warranty repairs also specializes in solar sales and installation. They are waiting for a ok from Ron to see what it would take to run the wires as they should have been. No word from Ron yet.Lillyputz
Posted: 1:01 PM – Dec 29, 2013John:Our rig came with the generator prep package, and as we don’t have a built-in generator, they removed the Onan panel from the covered area where the rear slide controls are located and put the GoPower solar controller in its place. I suspect thin guage wire to the controller – should we have 6 guage wire to the solar controller as well?
Thanks, Rick
Posted: 10:03 PM – Jan 02, 2014Rick,Going on memory, the gauge of the wire from the panels to the controller is more important than the gauge from controller to batteries because of length and amperage involved. Will need to look that up again.
rwb_wl wrote:John:Our rig came with the generator prep package, and as we don’t have a built-in generator, they removed the Onan panel from the covered area where the rear slide controls are located and put the GoPower solar controller in its place. I suspect thin guage wire to the controller – should we have 6 guage wire to the solar controller as well?
Thanks, Rick
Posted: 11:06 AM – Jan 03, 2014Thanks John:If that is the case, re-wiring may be a bit of a job, as we have the rear corner door model with the solar controller located above it in the slide control area. Our panels are within the front 1/3 of the fiver. In addition, the dealer may have used the wiring designed for the Onan generator.
Rick
Posted: 2:30 PM – Jan 03, 2014I currently have three 140 watt Kyocera panels, and am going to add a fourth. I have the Carriage factory wired 10 gauge cable from the roof to the charge controller. After doing a bit of research, my four solar panels can be wired in series, instead of parallel, which cuts the amperage by 75%. The panels will put out about 7 amps @ 80vdc, instead of 28 amps @ 18vdc, making the #10 wire acceptable to handle the load.The only requirement is the charge controller must be able to handle the high voltage from the panels. The Xantrex C40 and the Morningstar Tristar 45 both have a panel input voltage max of 125 vdc.
Posted: 4:40 PM – Jan 03, 2014Rick,Your comment about using generator wires makes me wonder if you are looking at the controller or simply the controller’s read-out panel display that is near the rear door. The readout panel has very thin 18-22 gauge wires. The controller has those plus the heavy wires from the panels, and the heavy wires from the controller to the batteries. Sizes may vary, but the controller is much larger than the display. My display is 3″ x 5″ x 1″ deep. The controller is 5″ x 8″ x 4″ deep. I have seen small integrated “digital” controllers about the size of my display only, with little info or just lights on the panel, but they are usually for small single panel applications or trickle charge applications, and they do quite well for that. Those integrated controller readout panels have only the leads from the panel(s) and to the batteries. If this is what you have you are correct that would be more work. If your setup is working for what you are using it for, leave it alone. If it isn’t, or you decide you want more out of it than it gives, you know where to go first. Bigger wires, shorter runs.
Yes serial can get by with smaller wire, but a single panel in the shade can greatly reduce effeciencies. The beauty of that is that all wiring could be redone on the roof. However, if you have a simple digital controller, i suspect that you would need a new one.
rwb_wl wrote:Thanks John:If that is the case, re-wiring may be a bit of a job, as we have the rear corner door model with the solar controller located above it in the slide control area. Our panels are within the front 1/3 of the fiver. In addition, the dealer may have used the wiring designed for the Onan generator.
Rick
Posted: 4:57 PM – Jan 03, 2014Yes, the more I read the more different opinions I get. It looks like a series connection requires an MPPT controller, which are significantly more expensive than PWM controllers. If I could easily get #6 wire, to replace the #10, I would do that. Since that’s not feasible, the series option looks promising, but the partial shade issue is not good.Posted: 1:35 PM – Jan 25, 2014I finished adding another Kyocera 140 watt panel, to my existing three. I also added a new solar charge controller, some DC circuit breakers, and two additional 6v batteries. For those of you, like me, with 10 gauge factory solar wire, I wired the panels in series of two and then parallel. This gives me about 32v from the panels to the charge controller. Today was another sunny day in Yuma, so I checked my solar output. I was putting 25 amps into the batteries at about 14.5v, which equates to about 10 amps from the panels to the controller at 32v. The voltage drop on 25 feet of #10 wire is less than 2%, which I can live with.Posted: 3:17 PM – Aug 31, 2014Anybody wired up the Carri-Lite 36XTRM5 for solar including; say, 4 panels on the roof? I have a 2011.I’m considering a 4 panel set up, inverter, 4 6v batts, etc. and I’d like to install a batt meter, inverter display panel and solar controler display panel inside the trailer somewhere. I have the Onan pre-wire that I don’t anticipate using over the toilet next to the AC panel behind the cab door. I’d rather leave the genset pre-wire, but I’d use the space for solar if it makes sense. I figured I’d get a couple Honda 2000s and hope to use them as little as possible.
I’m curious where to snake the wires down from the roof and what location makes sense for the display readouts. Also, I pulled back the basement wall panel closest to the living room and there looks like there is room in there that could be utilized rather than taking up the most forward compartment. But, I guess that the batts would have to be re-located, because I know that wire run (batts to inverter, etc.) has to be short. I plan on getting sealed AGM batts. Just wondering if anyone utilized the space I’m referring to. I’m thinking I’ll pull the sewer hose holder out since the rhino hose won’t go in there anyway do to the fittings being too big, which would enlarge this space even more.
Thoughts?
Posted: 10:56 AM – Sep 01, 2014If you have an extra sewer vent on the roof the factory wiring may be there already, but it is probably way too thin for your planned use. I did not have this, but the sewer vent that routes up behind my shower was a pretty easy fish. My Cameo slide switches and holding tank meters are in this same wall panel. The Morningstar remote monitoring panel fits easily here. My Morningstar controller and fuse shutoff are mounted in the area you identified. I need to take the black panels down to get to the controller, but I mounted the shutoff so it is accessible with the black panels in place and the panels still removable.More about the roof. I took out the oem tank monitoring panel. Fished down into basement area to confirm output location. It was a bit crooked of a fish, with one bend. Went top side and pulled off the vent and removed putty etc. I fished down to the oem meter location. I left both of these fish wires in place. I found that my vent pipe was not above roof line and fixed this while I was at it. With a keyhole saw I was able to enlarge the hole in the framing below the roof – no change to decking or roof rubber. I felt around to confirm framing and found a suitable location for my waterproof junction box, not far from vent, but not so close as to interfere with went cap or new larger one either. Your heavy wire is fished from new hole to vent area, (easier to make the downward bend than the other way around) then, using earlier fish wires (I uses insulated 16 gauge solid wire) down to oem meter area, then to basement. I included an extra fish wire to pull the Morningstar meter wiring when heavy stuff was done. When all done I added zip ties in oem meter area and again in basement so weight of wire not all supported from roof connections.
Think about panel layout before you cut the hole for the waterproof junction box. Depending upon panel size an inch could make a difference.
My batteries are up front in one big box. A lot of weight right on the pin. Your idea is where I wanted them, but sealed batteries were not in the budget. My inverter is up front close to but separately vented from the batteries.
Several water hoses and blank tank flush are routed on floor back behind the black wall where you want your batteries. I rerouted all of those hoses to expand my storage area (moving the black walls rearward and changing the angle of the one panel). Removed all black carpeting and put down linoleum. With water pipes, in existing or rerouted positions, you will need to build a 2×2 platform for your battery box, but it would fit. Depending upon the size configuration of your battery box, you might need to move part of the black wall forward a bit, but that is easily done.
Phillip (jdpm) documented his install of a sewer line holder under the 5er. Lowes etc have 8 foot long large (also small) square fence posts in white and beige plastic that easily accommodate hoses and couplings. The small looks big enough, but does not allow a small clear 45 to fit inside attached to the hose. Mounts underneath just forward of the forward holding tank..a lot more convenient than the oem location..I spray painted the caps and outer 12 inches at each end black.
Posted: 12:27 PM – Sep 01, 2014JohnD222,Thanks for the good info!! I looked up your unit’s floor plan and can follow your reasoning. I’m going to need to pull some panels and get on the roof to see what my best fishing options are for a solar system installation. I’m new to RVing, but learning fast.
Regarding the basement, the 36XTRM5 has linoleum flooring that runs back to the bulkhead (where stairs start). From your post, I understand that AGM batts would be best if installed to the living room side of the basement, because of the de-gassing/ venting issues. That makes sense, although I guess a marine box with power vent could be installed. I’d buy AGMs to minimize the payload burden on the truck, if they were the only viable batt option in the area I’m identifying. If I can re-route some pipes (per your post) and there is enough space generally, that area under my water closet/W/D closet hopefully can work for all the solar equipment and batts. I’d be coming down from the roof at that location fishing the sewer vent hopefully. Plus, the various display panels (3 I guess: batt monitor, panel controller and inverter) could be installed in the immediately adjacent bulkhead wall visible from the living room by the entry door. If this area is suitable for all the solar/batt equipment, wire runs would be very very short, and, the weight would be closer to the axles.
My plan is to prepare an install plan, wiring diagram and parts list to approve before I either install it or have it installed. After studying HandyBob and Jack Mayer’s sites, I think I can sketch out what I want, without having to rely to heavily on “RV professionals”. Jack made a couple solar vendor recs that I’m checking with. I suspect I’ll have “a professional” install it.
JohnD222, how do you like flexible panels? Is this type easier or harder to keep out of the shade of roof accessories like antennas or vents, etc. I guess they don’t tilt up, but I’m not sure I’d ever get up there to do that anyway since I’d be on the move every few weeks.
Posted: 11:49 AM – Sep 02, 2014Flex panels are a lot less expensive than the first set I installed, but still more expensive than traditional panels. The receptors are more efficient in low sun angles, and partial panel shade than many of the cheaper panels; the more expensive ones also have this advantage. What sold me is an almost perfect fit length and width with other roof obstructions, many fewer roof penetrations, and fewer things to snag on low tree limbs (I am 13’6). I too would never get up there to move the panels. Mine shipped with a lot of screws and heavy rubber trim. I used none of that, simple the included self-adhesive glue down, with eternal one between panels and edge, then self lapping Dicor along the edges. Zero problems after 4 years of non stop florida sun. I still get same full charge rate too, so no dead cells yet. I buried all cabling under eternabond ad well.Doing it again I would look at the 24 volt panels that provide more watts within the same Sq ft footprint.
Be sure to set your controller to your battery type.
outwestbound wrote:JohnD222,JohnD222, how do you like flexible panels? Is this type easier or harder to keep out of the shade of roof accessories like antennas or vents, etc. I guess they don’t tilt up, but I’m not sure I’d ever get up there to do that anyway since I’d be on the move every few weeks.
B.W.Gentry
Owner/Admin
2007 Carri-Lite XTRM5
Breckenridge, TX
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