Water Pump backleakage problem – check valve needed?

LANDING PAGE Forums COMMON RV COMPONENTS & ISSUES FRESH-WATER SYSTEM Water Pump backleakage problem – check valve needed?

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    shadowshadow
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      shadow
      We’ve got a 2015 Lifestyle 37 cksl. We are currently on our 3rd water pump and all (including this one) have had the same issue of back-leaking. If we’re on city water the back-leakage goes into the fresh water tank. If we’re not, the back-leakage will cause the pump to cycle every few minutes. This trailer has had it’s share of water leaks in the past, but I haven’t found any since we worked thru the original ones. I’ve checked essentially all the lines/fittings, drain valves, faucets, faucet connections, external hot water heater fittings, etc. I called Shurflo and their thought was that pressure from the HW heater was overpowering the pump check valve causing the back-leakage and to repair/replace or install a check valve on the HW heater cold water inlet line. I looked at the HW heater connections and both have the same fittings so either both have a check valve or neither has a check valve (which is probably the case). The installation instructions for the HW heater don’t mention anything about a check valve.

      Has anyone experienced anything similar and , if so, what was the fix?? Also, can anyone guide me in what check valve to get and where in the water system it should be installed? I’ve read web articles about putting one on the HW heater inlet and others about putting one on the discharge of the pump.


      Posted: 8:05 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      JoeLifestyle
      So the problem is a leak, or you just hear the pump every few minutes? Try keeping the valve on City even while running on the pump. That fixed it for us. It seems to be some problem with the winterizing bypasses. We still get ocassional kitchen sink drips or pump cycling, but much less.

      Posted: 8:42 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      shadow
      FaithBowls wrote:So the problem is a leak, or you just hear the pump every few minutes? Try keeping the valve on City even while running on the pump. That fixed it for us. It seems to be some problem with the winterizing bypasses. We still get ocassional kitchen sink drips or pump cycling, but much less.

      which valve are you referring to?? Just to maybe clarify, if we’re on city water and the pump is on, it will not cycle as the city water connection maintains system pressure, BUT in this configuration, i do get back-leakage thru the pump into the freshwater tank. If we’re not on city water the pump will cycle every several minutes, again due to back-leakage. If I re-position the 2-way pump suction valve (located at the freshwater tank outlet) to get a suction from the clear tygon winterizing tube, water flows into the tube from the pump suction line.
      So I know the pump has back-leakage, but before i repair/replace the pump I want to try to figure out why I keep having the same problem (now on the 3rd pump) as now there’s no more warranty coverage. That’s why I was asking about using a check valve somewhere in the system.


      Posted: 9:20 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      JoeLifestyle
      It’s unlikely to be 3 bad pumps. What I mean is keep the city / gravity valve turned to City, even when you’re not on city water. Always operate on City and only use Gravity to fill the tank. Also try removing the cheap black strainer from the pump.

      Posted: 9:25 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      Traveler
      We had the same problem on our Cameo when we were hooked up to city water and our water pump not on our fresh water tank would fill up and overflow. The problem was the check valve in the water pump not working. We replaced it didn’t help; put in a new water pump and after a bit it started again. Our solution, thanks to advice from this forum was to add a check valve in the water line separate from the water pump. That was three years ago and have not had a problem.

      Carriage had gone out of business about 2 months after we bought our Cameo, so we worked directly with Shurflo and they were helpful sending us a free pump, but the solution was adding an inline check valve.


      Posted: 9:30 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      Traveler
      I just checked the “Owners Club” file to see if there is a file on fixing this problem, seem to me there is one, but B.W. is working at getting the file back up and running. Check back in a few days and run a search in these files to see the details on how to add a in-line check valve. I remember I picked it up at Home Depot and it was simple to install.

      Posted: 9:38 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      shadow
      FaithBowls wrote:It’s unlikely to be 3 bad pumps. What I mean is keep the city / gravity valve turned to City, even when you’re not on city water. Always operate on City and only use Gravity to fill the tank. Also try removing the cheap black strainer from the pump.

      still not sure what valve you’re referring to. Only valve I have that can be manually re-positioned is the valve on the outlet of the freshwater tank. This one can be used to lineup the suction of the pump to the freshwater tank or to a tygon tube used for winterizing the freshwater system.


      Posted: 9:42 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      shadow
      Traveler wrote:I just checked the “Owners Club” file to see if there is a file on fixing this problem, seem to me there is one, but B.W. is working at getting the file back up and running. Check back in a few days and run a search in these files to see the details on how to add a in-line check valve. I remember I picked it up at Home Depot and it was simple to install.

      Thanks for the check valve info. That sounds like what I’ll have to do so I’ll check back as you suggested to find out what check valve to get.

      Just did a quick look on the Owner’s Club & it looks like I have to be a Gold Member to access documents?? Am I looking in the right place??


      Posted: 10:03 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      JoeLifestyle
      Maybe this is something they changed in their last year. My system has 2 manual valves in the wet bay. One switches from normal use to winterize mode. The other valve switches from gravity to city mode. Presumably you set it on gravity when on the tank and on city when on a hose. But it doesn’t work well on gravity. We have found the system works better with the valve turned to city mode.

      Posted: 10:25 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      shadow
      FaithBowls wrote:Maybe this is something they changed in their last year. My system has 2 manual valves in the wet bay. One switches from normal use to winterize mode. The other valve switches from gravity to city mode. Presumably you set it on gravity when on the tank and on city when on a hose. But it doesn’t work well on gravity. We have found the system works better with the valve turned to city mode.

      Yea, our trailer was built in 2014 and we don’t have a “City/Gravity” valve…


      Posted: 10:39 AM – Sep 14, 2016
      falconhunter
      Here is a post on this forum with photos that describes how I installed a check valve to solve this problem
      chip
      water-tank-filling-from-city-connection-t185.html?hilit=fresh water tank

      Posted: 12:00 PM – Sep 14, 2016
      Traveler
      shadow wrote:

      Traveler wrote:I just checked the “Owners Club” file to see if there is a file on fixing this problem, seem to me there is one, but B.W. is working at getting the file back up and running. Check back in a few days and run a search in these files to see the details on how to add a in-line check valve. I remember I picked it up at Home Depot and it was simple to install.

      Thanks for the check valve info. That sounds like what I’ll have to do so I’ll check back as you suggested to find out what check valve to get.

      Just did a quick look on the Owner’s Club & it looks like I have to be a Gold Member to access documents?? Am I looking in the right place??

      Yes, you do need to be a member to get access to the files, but it’s well worth it with lots of information, plus it’s a great way to support the forum.

      I did try to take a photo to show what we did to solve the problem on our rig, but just couldn’t get a clear shot. Your water pump has an inlet and outlet. Our inlet has a small filter on it. It’s the outlet that we added the check valve. Cut the line and I added 18” length of metal faucet line to give some extra line to work with. Added the check valve. The hard part is getting to the pump, but if you’ve replaced your three times you know how to get to it.


      Posted: 1:55 PM – Sep 14, 2016
      shadow
      Falcon Hunter / Traveler,

      Thank you both for the check valve info. I’ll be doing an install soon and plan on putting the check valve on the pump discharge.


      Posted: 2:08 PM – Sep 14, 2016
      shadow
      Traveler wrote:

      shadow wrote:

      Traveler wrote:I just checked the “Owners Club” file to see if there is a file on fixing this problem, seem to me there is one, but B.W. is working at getting the file back up and running. Check back in a few days and run a search in these files to see the details on how to add a in-line check valve. I remember I picked it up at Home Depot and it was simple to install.

      Just did a quick look on the Owner’s Club & it looks like I have to be a Gold Member to access documents?? Am I looking in the right place??

      Yes, you do need to be a member to get access to the files, but it’s well worth it with lots of information, plus it’s a great way to support the forum.

      I agree and am now a gold member. Thanks again for the help


      Posted: 1:41 PM – Sep 15, 2016
      B.W.
      shadow wrote:Just did a quick look on the Owner’s Club & it looks like I have to be a Gold Member to access documents?? Am I looking in the right place??

      I just added a Video into our “How To Videos” section on the Owners Club. It’s located HERE. The title of the Video is: “SHURflo Water Pump Check Valve & Upper Assembly Replacement”. The background sound is irritating and would have been better with audio instructions. I just muted the sound and followed along.

      I just went back and added another video titled: “Water Pump Troubleshooting for RV’s”

      Hope this helps with your problem.


      Posted: 3:43 PM – Sep 15, 2016
      JohnD222
      Shadow,

      Everything on the suction side of the pump feeds out of the fresh water tank. No one way valve is needed there.

      On the outflow of the pump is where the one way valve is added. It can be added anywhere along that line, so long as it is installed before it T’s into the line coming from city water. You position it so city water cannot flow to the pump. The direction of one-way flow is from the pump to the city water T only.

      I took down the wall to the rear of the fresh water tank and mounted my one-way just above the tank. There is no need to go to that extra work, but it sure made rerouting the pipes and making connections easier, particularly if you add a real pressure regulator in the mix.

      If you have had the pump out twice already, you probably know where you can get your hands to most easily in order to add a few fittings to make it work. First step is to find a valve and see how big it is, and what fittings are at each end, what adapters you need, and what P-Tex pieces and parts and crimping tools are needed. The latter are not designed for cramped spaces so that may dictate where you put the valve. I suspect that in the end you could be looking at a fair number of “L’s.”. Because of that, I upsized the pipe out of the pump to 3/4, did all the bends and connections to the one way in 3/4, and stepped back down to 1/2 P-Tex just before it connected back to the pipe leading to the city water line.

      Why are the one way valves built into 3 pumps failing? My wild guess is the city water line at one or more occasions had a fair bit of sediment/dirt that got into the system and that dirt floats around inside that valve sticking occasionally, or there is dirt/sediment in the fresh water tank that is picked up by the pump and does the same. It does not need to be a very large piece of dirt. The size/weight of a true one way valve makes a more solid seal.

      Good luck.


      Posted: 7:14 PM – Sep 15, 2016
      shadow
      B.W. wrote:

      shadow wrote:Just did a quick look on the Owner’s Club & it looks like I have to be a Gold Member to access documents?? Am I looking in the right place??

      I just added a Video into our “How To Videos” section on the Owners Club. It’s located HERE. The title of the Video is: “SHURflo Water Pump Check Valve & Upper Assembly Replacement”. The background sound is irritating and would have been better with audio instructions. I just muted the sound and followed along.

      I just went back and added another video titled: “Water Pump Troubleshooting for RV’s”

      Hope this helps with your problem.

      thanks BW, I appreciate your help


      Posted: 7:29 PM – Sep 15, 2016
      shadow
      JohnD222 wrote:Shadow,

      Everything on the suction side of the pump feeds out of the fresh water tank. No one way valve is needed there. On the outflow of the pump is where the one way valve is added.

      Why are the one way valves built into 3 pumps failing?

      Good luck.

      Hi John,

      I do plan on putting the check valve in the pump discharge. On my setup the pump discharge is flexible tubing, not PEX so I just need to remove one PEX clamp to free the flexible tubing. I’ll replace that with a regular hose clamp when I get it all back together. As far as the pumps failing, your guess is as good as mine. Shurflo thinks it’s because of the HW heater pressure over powering the pump check valve, but who knows.


      Posted: 8:39 PM – Sep 15, 2016
      JohnD222
      OK. So, is your hot water very, very hot?

      Does it seem to run out of hit water very quickly?

      I ask because maybe the tank is half full of water, not 90% full of water.

      Next time you travel for a day, be sure to turn off the circuit breaker or switch to electric hot water. (I presume you travel without propane hot water off, so if you travel with it on, don’t do this- you will get burned). With city water on, but no power to hot water heater, thus cold water everywhere, release pressure via tipping the over heat/over temp valve on the hot water heater. Keep it open until water flows freely. This valve is accessible from the outside panel. This will release excess air from the system.

      If little air comes out, this was not a problem.

      Goodluck.


      Posted: 6:54 AM – Sep 16, 2016
      shadow
      JohnD222 wrote:OK. So, is your hot water very, very hot?

      Does it seem to run out of hit water very quickly?

      I ask because maybe the tank is half full of water, not 90% full of water.

      Next time you travel for a day, be sure to turn off the circuit breaker or switch to electric hot water. (I presume you travel without propane hot water off, so if you travel with it on, don’t do this- you will get burned). With city water on, but no power to hot water heater, thus cold water everywhere, release pressure via tipping the over heat/over temp valve on the hot water heater. Keep it open until water flows freely. This valve is accessible from the outside panel. This will release excess air from the system.

      If little air comes out, this was not a problem.

      When we travel the HW heater doesn’t have the gas or electric turned on. As far as checking if the HW heater is remaining full or not, we don’t think it is because after a time, when there’s been no pressure source (i.e.not hooked up to city water and pump not on) to the fresh water system, we’ll get some air when we open a faucet; a little from the cold side and a lot more from the hot side.

      sglad
      Use the existing winterizing by-pass valve as a check valve to prevent water from flowing into fresh water tank. Just put a cap on the hose end and close valve (by-pass tank) when connected to city water.

      Posted: 8:20 AM – Oct 01, 2016
      Running_Bear
      Not sure if this is your problem, but I had the back flow fail multiple times in my pump. The water from the shore line backed into the fresh water holding tank. After replacing several pumps I finally installed a shut off valve directly after the pump. Now when hooked to shore water I shut it off and when I am going to use the pump I turn it on. Problem solved. Just s word of caution. It will take some adapters for the install due to the pipe size.

      Posted: 3:04 PM – Oct 04, 2016
      shadow
      OP here. Thought i’d give an update on where i’m at on my pump and leakage situation. Between camping trips, waiting for parts and other stuff this has stretched out longer than I expected. I ordered a check valve repair kit from Shurflo and put that in. I also got a check valve from Lowes similar to the one described in an earlier post to this thread. It’s a Watts brand swing check valve (i.e. no spring holds it closed; only gravity) thus it has to be mounted horizontally, Also needed 2 hose fittings to thread into each end of the check valve for hose connections. Just a side note on these. I first used teflon tap to seal these to the check valve, but got leakage I couldn’t stop by tightening the fittings. I ended up using joint compound and that worked better but I still had a slow drip on one of the fittings. Took them apart and applied the joint compound to both the fitting threads and the check valve threads, then re-assembled….NO LEAKS. Maybe you’re supposed to use joint compound that way, but I don’t use it much and don’t remember having problems in the past. Anyway, getting the check valve and hose fittings put together without any leakage turned out to be more of a chore than I expected. After all this I was ready to reinstall the pump (removed to replaced its check valve) and the new discharge line with the Watts check valve in it. It was somewhat of a chore as the space to work in is very tight. On my model of trailer (37 cksl) the fresh water pump, tank, and hoses are located on the off-door side. The pass-thru compartment on this side is much narrower than on the door side. Between leaning in thru the compartment doorway with my feet on the ground, and sitting backwards (legs dangling out the compartment doorway), on the pass-thru floor, I was able to access the areas that I needed to, but just barely. I don’t have much ‘run-time’ on this fix yet (left it pressurized overnight with no apparent leaks and pump did not cycle), but am not 100% convinced it’s a done deal. We have another camping trip coming up next week so I’ll be able to check things better during that time.

      Thanks again for the suggestions and information. Very helpful


      Posted: 3:11 PM – Oct 04, 2016
      shadow
      sglad wrote:Use the existing winterizing by-pass valve as a check valve to prevent water from flowing into fresh water tank. Just put a cap on the hose end and close valve (by-pass tank) when connected to city water.

      I did that as part of a test I was doing but wouldn’t want to leave it like that. Pump back-leakage will fill that winterizing line causing the line to pressurize to whatever the pump discharge is at. When I did it the line became rock hard from the pressure and was bulging. The winterizing line on mine is only tygon tubing and probably doesn’t have a high enough pressure rating to use it the way you suggested. It looked a little scary so I didn’t leave it pressurized very long at all.


      Posted: 9:57 AM – Oct 05, 2016
      sglad
      Remove the winterizing tube and replace with a screw on cap at valve.

      Posted: 11:28 AM – Oct 05, 2016
      shadow
      sglad wrote:Remove the winterizing tube and replace with a screw on cap at valve.

      I put a check valve in the pump discharge line; see my post above for details (posted yesterday)


      Posted: 10:18 AM – Feb 13, 2017
      welshb2
      Hi All,
      We have 2015 Lifestyle 32FW and I had the same problem with water pump check valve failure. I was going to replace the SurFlo complete housing from Amzn.com. Looked at site falconhunter recommended. Went to Home Depot and bought 3/4″ check valve, 3/4″ to 1/2″ reducers and 2 hose clamps, removed water filter for more work area. Installed yesterday 2/12/17 and seems to be working fine this morning. Update if needed. Not the only “repairs” I’ve done to our 5’er either…
      Thanks falconhunter for the post!
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